Joseph Petviashvili ([info]krotty) wrote,
@ 2007-12-07 11:38:00
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Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics
A lot of you have asked me if there's an explanation for this graph and if it proves or disproves something.

As usual with statistics a single argument will not prove or disprove anything by itself, this is not logic where if you find a contradiction - you're done, or if you've proved something, you've proved it no matter what other arguments you can find.

This graph is the single most convincing graphical argument that I can find that "proves" that the elections were not free and that that they were rigged. Of course there are other arguments for and against that. If you follow the news will will find plenty of them, and you have to find them all, combine them with your prior assumptions to come up with your own conclusions.

As for the actual method of how this was done, I'm not so convinced that it was just ballot stuffing and nothing else. It seems to me that different portions of the graph show different methods of fraud, and it is just a coincidence that they all lined up like that.

The top 80-100% turnover portion is the most clear example when people have no voice at all, like in the soviet union. No matter if they showed up because they were forced to, or they didn't show up and their voices were counted anyway. Chechnya and Ingushetia had almost 0% real turnout and they've reported ~90% - ballot stuffing at its worst.

The dark left cluster shows a different story to me - a story of coercion and massive propaganda. People were forced to attend, people were forced to show their vote, people were given the idea that there is no other choice. And everybody not voting for the main line was discouraged to attend - there's no reason to go if your vote will end up counted against your will because of the 7% barrier (if you voted for a party that didn't pass it, your vote will go to the top contenders proportionally). Ballot stuffing is still there, but it probably plays a minor role here.


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[info]abyrneseyeview
2007-12-07 09:01 pm UTC (link)
Would it be possible to explain the entire thing as, for example, "United Russia's support varies from place to place, and everywhere his supporters automatically added 30% of the total population to his vote"? I don't have the data, though.

Have you tried to find which equation fits the trend, and if different segments can be explained with different equations? An intimidated place might look like "United Russia votes = United Russia Support + .2 (non-UR supporters)", whereas a ballot-stuffed place would be more like "UR votes = UR Supporters + 20,000," or something.

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[info]krotty
2007-12-07 09:08 pm UTC (link)
Here's original data

Since the graph is using percentages, there's no simple linear formula with absolute numbers. In that sense the graph is an argument against any hypothesis like that.

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question from a newbie idiot
(Anonymous)
2007-12-08 02:58 am UTC (link)
You will laugh, but I don't understand why the % increase in voter turnout correlating closely with the % who voted a certain way is such an incriminating fact. It means .. what? Can you explain in simple-ish terms? I am not a statistician. Thanks!

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Re: question from a newbie idiot
[info]krotty
2007-12-08 04:51 am UTC (link)
If the election is free and unbiased the turnout % depends on the local factors like weather. When the ballots are stuffed or when the voters are forced to attend you will see the graph like this.

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Re: question from a newbie idiot
(Anonymous)
2007-12-11 05:41 am UTC (link)
Can you (or someone else) create a similar graph for the United States in 2004?

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JP
(Anonymous)
2007-12-08 03:10 am UTC (link)
This is one possible explanation, but I do not see why it should be convincing.

I find another explanation by far more convincing: Putin voters are more enthusiastic and more motivated to vote. Hence, in areas where there is a high percentage of Putin supporters, turnout is high.
On the other hand, people who oppose Putin do not see any viable alternative and are more likely to stay away from voting.

Putin is an autocrat and there are lots of good reasons why to critisize him, but that does not change anything about the fact that many in Russia either support him or do not see a better alternative.

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Re: JP
[info]krotty
2007-12-08 05:04 am UTC (link)
Then how would this theory explain decrease in the number of invalid ballots in the areas with high turnout?

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Re: JP
(Anonymous)
2007-12-08 06:00 am UTC (link)
I only see a decrease in the invalid ballot proportion. Can you point us to a graph showing a decrease in the number of invalid ballots?

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Re: JP
[info]krotty
2007-12-08 06:14 am UTC (link)
yes, that's what I meant, sorry. You can play with raw data on swivel

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Re: JP
(Anonymous)
2007-12-08 10:26 am UTC (link)
I think that is also typical voter behavior (also in my country): when the alternatives are not acceptable to the people then those who do go to the ballot tend to vote blank/invalid as a form of silent protest. In other words those who oppose Putin and do not see an acceptable alternative mostly stay at home or vote blank with higher probability.

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[info]phillennium
2007-12-08 10:46 pm UTC (link)
Putin voters are more enthusiastic and more motivated to vote
Yes, there is such an explanation, but it is unlikely. Everybody knew that Putin will get a lot of seats, and nobody knew for sure if any opposition party will be able to get any seats, so it was the time for the people who oppose Putin to be enthusiastic.

(sorry for my poor English)

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Re: JP
(Anonymous)
2007-12-09 05:26 pm UTC (link)
So, how do you explain increase in turnout if people who oppose Putin don't participate in election? It turns out that they changed into Putin's supporters and come to the polls, doesn't it?

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Re: JP
(Anonymous)
2007-12-09 05:42 pm UTC (link)
Moreover, at this election percent of bad ballots is only 1.09%. Four years ago it was 1,56%. And four years ago an option "against all parties" existed (4.7% of voters preferred it at that time). This year lots of people said they would come to election and damage their ballots to express distrust to the all contenders. Where are their damage ballots? I think they became good material for stuffing. Right ballots were stuffed instead of them. It's disgusting.

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Another explanation
(Anonymous)
2007-12-08 05:10 am UTC (link)
This graph clearly demonstrates that United Russia is supported by overwhelming majority.
It also suggests that all other parties are supported by radical activists.

Just suppose that Putin is actually supported by more than 60% of population. Wouldn't this mean that in regions where the passive majority decided to come to elections they would dominate them.

Marginalized radicals are very active. They always come to elections. That is it.
So in the absence of real proof shouldn't you be less accusatory.

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Re: Another explanation
[info]krotty
2007-12-08 05:22 am UTC (link)
How do you explain that invalid ballots are less frequent where turnout is high? Also note that Putin's party is not radical and their followers are not very active by themselves.

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Re: Another explanation
(Anonymous)
2007-12-08 07:00 am UTC (link)
Note that there was no option "against all candidates", and some time ago there was some propaganda here about coming and making your bulletin invalid if you support nobody and don't want your vote to be manipulated/stuffed/etc. This propaganda could explain the correlation.

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Re: Another explanation
[info]krotty
2007-12-08 07:26 am UTC (link)
Right, but where's normal percent of clueless or silly mistakes kind of ballots?

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Re: Another explanation
[info]phillennium
2007-12-08 10:53 pm UTC (link)
And if you look here, you can see a fantastic picture: a district with 17779 voters, with ONE HUNDRED PERCENT voting for United Russia (it's official information). No voting for other parties, no invalid ballots, no skipping the election. As you understand, there just can't be 17779 voters without a single invalid ballot, so it's obvious there was a fraud. And it certainly looks like the reason for invalid ballots being less frequent where turnout is high is just the same.

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Re: Another explanation
(Anonymous)
2007-12-09 02:04 am UTC (link)
Correlation between high turnout and low percent of invalid ballots doesn't add anything to the fact that 99% turnover is highly unlikely.

If we ignore abnormally high turnout then the fact that the number of invalid ballots there is so low wouldn't bother us much. If voters are so disciplined perhaps they just as accurate.

Here is an explanation for you. These abnormally high numbers seem to be observed in the areas where islam and clan organization of communities dominate. So if imams and clan leaders are in agreement that Putin is good they can influence their people accordingly.

Not saying it is so. Just pointing out that the graphs tell nothing about fairness of the election.

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Re: Another explanation
[info]krotty
2007-12-09 02:10 am UTC (link)
Yes, you are right, you need additional information. The point is that this extra information is already available, and once you find it and process it, there will be little doubt in your mind about the fairness of this election.

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Re: Another explanation
(Anonymous)
2007-12-09 05:32 am UTC (link)
The problem is that I saw unending waves of anti-russian propaganda over the last decade. By now I have learned that this is being deliberately organized and figured out how to benefit financially from these waves. Now the size of my portfolio is the best proof that I did well by stopping listening to it. So please forgive me if I doubt validity of this extra information. You know the story of the boy who cried wolf. Right?

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Re: Another explanation
[info]krotty
2007-12-09 06:36 am UTC (link)
I understand your distrust and I personally ignore main stream media in my financial decisions precisely because of that.

But here I'm referring to the fact that people were forced to attend elections. This was done differently in different places, but you can find first hand accounts of how this was done. In some places they were even forced to vote certain way or else. I personally have friends in different parts of Russia and they ALL have mentioned it. Official election data and this graph (or to be precise the left portion of it) reflects this fact beyond reasonable doubt.

I'll most a math model that fits this data soon.

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Re: Another explanation
[info]krotty
2007-12-09 07:51 am UTC (link)
Just posted a model that explains the data pretty well.

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Turnover might be explained differently
(Anonymous)
2007-12-08 11:50 am UTC (link)
In some countries, eg. Brazil, voting is mandatory as a citizen's duty. In the US, of course, people only vote if they want to.

What's the situation in Russia? Is it like Brazil or like the US?

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Re: Turnover might be explained differently
[info]krotty
2007-12-08 11:55 am UTC (link)
I'm not sure that Brazil has mandatory voting, what's the penalty for not voting? I've heard that the turnout is pretty high, but was it 100% ever?

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Re: Turnover might be explained differently
(Anonymous)
2007-12-08 12:46 pm UTC (link)
In Brazil if you don´t vote, is necessary to pay a little penalty tax (between $0.50 and $1.00) or will loose your voting document. Without the document, is impossible to get a passport or get a public job. (I´m Brazilian)

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[info]phillennium
2007-12-08 10:56 pm UTC (link)
The situation in Russia is like in the US - officially. But there was some pressure to let people vote.

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(Anonymous)
2007-12-10 07:48 am UTC (link)
I am curious: what constitutes an invalid ballot? The documents I linked to in Russian were several pages in length, but I couldn't tell if they were ballots or other related documents. In my country, ballots are small slips of paper with only a few regions in which to write. Perhaps I am being naive, but I would think that the likelihood of accidentally spoiling a ballot would be low because they should be simple to fill out. In this case, I would expect a low statistical probability of a ballot being invalid, but what of the variance in that random variable? Might the expected number of invalid ballots be partially independent of the sample size, leading to a smaller percentage at higher turn-out rates? This does not make statistical sense to me, but might explain it. Anyway, I am not sure I understand what a decreasing proportion of spoiled ballots with an increase in turn-out suggests.

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[info]krotty
2007-12-10 08:11 am UTC (link)
The pages in Russian are totals of one of the election committees, where there were two sets, one that all the observers have signed, and another set that was actually sent as a final result 30 minutes later. The numbers on the two sets are significantly different, and all observers claim that they have not signed the "final" set.

It is hard to accidentally make a ballot invalid - you are right, and even if you do, you can ask for another one. So most of these ballots are intentional, the problem is that there's still some baseline of clueless people who just drop the ballot without making any marks or marking it for two parties. This share should be almost constant, where's as you can see it drops to 0 in areas with high turnout. The only exceptional high turnout areas on the detailed graph that have high percentage of invalid ballots are ships that voted with absentee ballots.

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